[Antoine Stroman] 18:36:07 Can you hear me? Perfect team. [King Shyste] 18:36:08 Yeah, you can hear me? One second, one second. Let me turn this TV on. [King Shyste] 18:36:16 Go again. Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me? [Antoine Stroman] 18:36:17 You hear me now? It's good. Yes, sir. [King Shyste] 18:36:22 All right, good, good. [Antoine Stroman] 18:36:23 I appreciate you taking this time for me. I really do. And I'll go over everything and all of that and why, you know, why… why you're one of the people that I requested in particular. [Antoine Stroman] 18:36:37 So what we're doing is, so I'm working in a project, a collaborative project with the University of Penn and the Color Girls Museum. [Antoine Stroman] 18:36:44 So what they want to do is they want to create like a living breathing like curriculum. And so they wanted to kind of make it, you know, wanted to add some creativity to it. [Antoine Stroman] 18:36:54 So one of the things I'm big on, I work at Bodine. I'm a black history teacher and I also work with the Office of Curriculum doing that stuff. So Black Philly is like, that's my thing. [King Shyste] 18:36:55 Right. [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:06 So I thought about, first I thought about just black art in general in the city, but I wanted to take it a little bit deeper and go into the spoken word scene. [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:17 Because I was around, I started going, I started kind of going, I started kind of going to a lot of the venues when I was in college. [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:23 When I was like back and forth in college and stuff like that so We've seen where a lot of y'all that book this thing I just don't feel like there's enough literature. There's not enough, like the voice isn't there. And I was talking to my man, I know you know um alan train um i was talking to him [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:43 And he was just like, I was just explaining to him, I was like. [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:47 The people that built the scene, when I started coming around it had already been built. [Antoine Stroman] 18:37:53 Just words had already been built When I got there. So, you know, say we're Wednesdays and stuff like that that stuff was like already a thing. Panoramic was my spot. I used to be with Crucial a lot. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:05 So like, I want to tell that story. I want you guys to like really tell that story of how this thing was how this thing was built. So a lot of the questions that I have are sort of centered around that. [King Shyste] 18:38:07 Yes, sir. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:19 And what's going to happen is I'm going to actually take this and I want to teach this to some students. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:25 And they're going to probably create like whether it's spoken word pieces, they're going to create their own pieces of art. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:31 To sort of preserve y'all voice. If that makes sense. Because I want to live. And it started off again as something I was just doing, you know, with pen and but now this is like a real passion project for me. Like I'm really, I'm super invested. I'm [King Shyste] 18:38:34 Mm-hmm. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:44 I'm trying to get Sam on here. I'm trying to get all of the heavy hitters, everybody, because this is going to be like a two-year process. [King Shyste] 18:38:54 So I would also… I don't know if you know about Katie Mars. [Antoine Stroman] 18:38:58 Katie Morris, I'm going to put that name down. I do. [King Shyste] 18:39:01 All right. Because he kind of like… predates myself. Sam. [King Shyste] 18:39:12 He knows KD too. So Sam is… connected to that, like, you know, Shaz, my guy. Sam came with me with just words, but Sam was… doing things prior to just words He knows, you know, KD and that scene. [Antoine Stroman] 18:39:19 Yes. [King Shyste] 18:39:27 Prior to just worrisome. [Antoine Stroman] 18:39:28 Okay, cool. So I just wrote, I just wrote the name down because that's a name I have not heard or come across. [Antoine Stroman] 18:39:34 While I was digging through all of this. Start recording this section because I'm going to use the transcript as a way to like go back and add stuff in. And throughout the process, I'll be keeping y'all up on like what the students are. I also share the curriculum. I'm going to sit down and create with y'all. It is something that, again, it's going to go for the Color Girls Museum, but that's something that I really feel like should be preserved in general because that's Philly history and that's a piece of Philly history that's not really [Antoine Stroman] 18:40:04 Again, it's because it was such an underground art form it's something that I feel like does need that light shone on it because there were so many different connections to it. [Antoine Stroman] 18:40:13 All right, so the first question, obviously, just for the sake of the um Just for the sake of the interview and just for the sake of this Zoom call. [Antoine Stroman] 18:40:22 Tell us who you are and what venues you hosted. [King Shyste] 18:40:28 King Shais and I host Just Words. I was the host of Just Words. [King Shyste] 18:40:34 Which was the longest running open mic in the city, we went to about 16 years, a little over 16, yeah, about 16 years, a little over 16 years. [King Shyste] 18:40:46 Some change. And other than that i would guest host events. I didn't do other open mic, so I only hosted that one continuous open mic. Any other drama might be like a gun for hire, so to speak. [Antoine Stroman] 18:41:02 Got it. [King Shyste] 18:41:02 Somebody doing a vic and you come host it that type of thing. But it was just words from 2003. [King Shyste] 18:41:12 To… About 2019. [Antoine Stroman] 18:41:17 Okay. Yeah. I remember hearing like the last the last uh when it was like, when it was shutting down, I was like, man, that's wow. [Antoine Stroman] 18:41:26 Okay. All right. So we got just word in there. Now, who are some of, like you mentioned a little bit of Sam. And when I was talking to Trane, he mentioned somebody named Bill Holmes. [Antoine Stroman] 18:41:35 Who I also haven't heard of. But at the time that you were breaking in, who were some of the biggest contributors to the scene? [King Shyste] 18:41:37 Yes. Yeah. [King Shyste] 18:41:45 Um… So… there was uh you know so when I was doing Just Words, I started Just Words. [King Shyste] 18:41:57 And was working there, a friend of mine's own the venue. So I wasn't a part of it as an artist or host initially. [King Shyste] 18:42:07 So I will see the polls that would come in. And one was a… Clarence E. Wright. [King Shyste] 18:42:15 Brother Case, who was the first host Then it was quiet rage with Vision and Damali. [Antoine Stroman] 18:42:22 You know. [King Shyste] 18:42:23 This was the whisper. There was um free spirit just greg Ruben Jones. [King Shyste] 18:42:33 I don't want to leave nobody out. So that was like the first wave of mool mirage a pose that I would see. [Antoine Stroman] 18:42:42 Mm-hmm. [King Shyste] 18:42:42 On stage before I stepped on the stage and katie Morris [Antoine Stroman] 18:42:48 Okay, this is good. This is giving me more names to More names for me to dig into. Okay. All right. [Antoine Stroman] 18:42:55 Tell me a little bit behind it. So you see you started this. So you knew the homie that You know, that owned the venue Okay. [King Shyste] 18:43:02 Stacey Dollars, yes. So you got to put his name in there because Stacey Dollens was the owner of Dallas Palace. [Antoine Stroman] 18:43:06 Ac Dollar. Okay, Stacey. [King Shyste] 18:43:09 And he gave us a lot of us that platform. And, you know, we start talking about this. We got to talk about the fact that from Dallas Palace, a lot of polls that came went on to start opening up and starting their own venues. [King Shyste] 18:43:24 So it was like a tree from just words that we got to talk about And Stacey and myself was glad to be a part of, you know, cats will come in got introduced to spoken word, loved it and went [King Shyste] 18:43:38 And started their own events like on a Monday night over here or Tuesday night over here or a Friday night over here. [King Shyste] 18:43:45 Even, you know, that made the city to seem vibrant. So it wasn't just one venue Like you mentioned a word for word And then, you know, a lot of people sprung, you know, it was quite a few oh My man, Molly Moo. So you talk about some of the initials. I think he came after me but [King Shyste] 18:44:06 You know, it's important to throw his name in there because he went on to do the Spitfire at the reef at 2nd and South. [King Shyste] 18:44:13 You know, things like that. So you have people doing that. Then you, you know, probably heard about the harvest A lot of those checks like i was naming vision, Rhapsody. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:14 Mm-hmm. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:20 Yep. That was a… [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:25 Yeah. Yeah. [King Shyste] 18:44:29 All those people groove is just great. I met them at Just Words. [King Shyste] 18:44:33 And he went on to start their own venues. You know, so you got the harvest out of that. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:37 Okay. Yeah. Okay. So the harvest, I forgot about that was over in West Philly, if I'm not mistaken, right over there on [King Shyste] 18:44:45 It moved around, started in West Philly. But the last… Scott was a world carefully live at like 30th and Market. So that's more like Cinn City. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:48 Yeah. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:53 Okay. Yeah, that's where I think I saw it. [King Shyste] 18:44:58 Around the pin mark what's that pin? University of Penn area. [Antoine Stroman] 18:44:59 Penn Heisman. Okay, cool. All right. [Antoine Stroman] 18:45:04 Cool, cool, cool. So now you mentioned having multiple venues. Why was the scene so vibrant? What was it about Philly that made this scene so vibrant? [King Shyste] 18:45:17 Two things. It's not a talent. [King Shyste] 18:45:24 And what we did was… Like when you talk about panoramic poetry When I went there, all you seen was poets. [Antoine Stroman] 18:45:31 Okay. [King Shyste] 18:45:33 You might see somebody sing and then start a poem. But it was mostly poets. I think at one time I went there was a band. After a while, they let the band go. [King Shyste] 18:45:42 But a lot of spots were just doing poetry. What we did at Dallas was just We did poets next to singers Next to rappers, next to live music. [King Shyste] 18:45:56 Later on comics. And that wasn't a thing with a lot of, so for a quote unquote poetry spots. [King Shyste] 18:46:03 But to get spoken word seen as more of a legitimate art form that our people, when I say our people, Black people love, we love Eddie Murphy, Richard Power. We love the comics. [King Shyste] 18:46:13 Kevin Hart coming from Philly. We definitely, Philadelphia guys has a strong music scene from the sound of Philadelphia. [King Shyste] 18:46:21 And before that rap, you know, all the way back to Steady B and all that. So we already had all those other art forms to put spoken word out of it, like we're not in this closet over here doing poetry. [King Shyste] 18:46:34 We could stand next to stand next all the other art forms so you would get the vibrant art scene and cultural people that love live entertainment, that would love to see live singers. [King Shyste] 18:46:48 Sit and sit and enjoy spoken word where they probably would never see it before. So it gave people a chance who had a stigma like i used to hate When the guy at the door. [King Shyste] 18:47:00 People walk past and they see people coming in. They were like, what's going on in there? He was like, it's a poetry spot. And they was going, oh, and keep walking. [King Shyste] 18:47:06 I was like, yo, stop telling people it's a poetry spot. [Antoine Stroman] 18:47:07 Yeah. Yes. [King Shyste] 18:47:10 It's an open mic and it's the poets. They could get in and enjoy poetry and become a fan because in their mind. [Antoine Stroman] 18:47:11 Yeah, anybody. [King Shyste] 18:47:18 They had some stigma about what they think it is. [Antoine Stroman] 18:47:22 Mm-hmm. [King Shyste] 18:47:22 You know so you love Shoe Sanchez. Last pull was of Gil Scott Herron or Mayor Baraka. They think it's just that. [Antoine Stroman] 18:47:30 Yeah, yeah. [King Shyste] 18:47:31 Other part was… If you're talking about that time. [King Shyste] 18:47:37 Spoken word and started getting into the mainstream. It was Love Jones before that. [King Shyste] 18:47:42 There was Slam the movie with Saul Williams. And it was deaf poetry on almost every on every week. [King Shyste] 18:47:50 So people started seeing it on mainstream. So when I would give out flyers back when people was handing out flyers. [King Shyste] 18:47:56 And I would tell them, they would say, I was looking for this. [King Shyste] 18:48:00 So you had two folds. You had people that would come in for the first time and not know what it was and enjoy it and watch it grow. [King Shyste] 18:48:09 Then you would have people that were looking for it and you had to go find those people. [King Shyste] 18:48:12 And I would tell people, stop trying to trick people into coming to your poetry spot by calling $2 Tuesdays. [King Shyste] 18:48:19 And then you just got a bunch of drunk people at your open mic and they ain't there for the poet. And it's kind of off. [Antoine Stroman] 18:48:23 Right. [King Shyste] 18:48:24 You know, stop doing you know, go find people that want to see spoken word. [King Shyste] 18:48:29 So that was the thing i would go find people. And if I say, they be like, what is spoken word? I'd be like, you ever watch death poetry? Oh, yeah, I love Death Poji. That. [King Shyste] 18:48:38 You know, just to give them an inclination. Or love jones you know we everybody seen Love Jones. That's why people come there and think, oh, it's just people sitting around snapping their fingers. [Antoine Stroman] 18:48:41 Yeah. [King Shyste] 18:48:46 You've been to just words. People in there hollering, screaming and stumping their feet. They're not just snapping their fingers. So the vibrant part was We're making it so vibrant. It just was the right time. It was on mainstream. [Antoine Stroman] 18:48:52 Bye. [Antoine Stroman] 18:48:57 Mm-hmm. [King Shyste] 18:48:59 People wanted to see it. I was, and I think a lot of people had different approaches of how they got their spots to grow But I was diligent about going everywhere. [King Shyste] 18:49:10 Open mics of the open mics Wherever I was at, people wouldn't want me to come to their school. So I'm handing out flyers after I do a poem in a school. And then the teachers would show up, two or three teachers would show up. [King Shyste] 18:49:23 So my thing was two people would come one week And next thing you know, I got two tables. [King Shyste] 18:49:29 They will bring two tables worth of people. That's how we will grow. Just slow burn. [King Shyste] 18:49:34 It was a slow burn. Was it something that hit like a big trend? [King Shyste] 18:49:38 So what made it vibrantly, you know, what people would say now was like, you didn't use that term back then But we grew it organically. [King Shyste] 18:49:46 And it just spread in Philly. [Antoine Stroman] 18:49:51 Like this. This is piggyback, man. I used to go to when i would go to panoramic, it'd be at october gallery. And I was talking with Al about, and I had noticed i was like. [Antoine Stroman] 18:50:05 And I'm going to definitely see what you think of this. [Antoine Stroman] 18:50:08 What's that connection with spoken word and Black-owned businesses? Because most of the places, pretty much every place that I've ever sat in or read something in it was a Black-owned business. What's the connection there? [King Shyste] 18:50:23 That's another multifaceted answer. One… there are poetry that white venues that we just aren't in there. [King Shyste] 18:50:31 Anytime I stumbled into it. I didn't enjoy myself. [Antoine Stroman] 18:50:32 Okay. [King Shyste] 18:50:36 I think with everything with us. It just didn't have the soul, the spirit, the energy the vibrant thing you was talking about. It was just, it's just killing me. I still think… their issues. [Antoine Stroman] 18:50:42 Yeah. [Antoine Stroman] 18:50:51 Mm-hmm. [King Shyste] 18:50:51 Their concerns, their passion doesn't match ours. So the phase they had aches about, I was like. [King Shyste] 18:50:57 That's the biggest struggle you got in your life. You bless. So what The other part was a lot of these venues, when they start growing. [King Shyste] 18:51:09 Black venue, black own venues. If you look, most of the time it was Monday through Thursday. [King Shyste] 18:51:15 Those are not big nights or wasn't. I don't know about the scene now, but when I was coming up. [King Shyste] 18:51:22 It wasn't always the big party scene. So if you had a lounge or bar or whatever, an art gallery or whatever you was like what can I do with this space? [King Shyste] 18:51:35 Unless you want to put a pole in the middle of the floor and have some girls dancing or, you know, people do a comedy spot. All of a sudden, some people got the bright idea to say Tuesday night, I could do a poetry so like and you know the art gallery [King Shyste] 18:51:51 Panamaric poetry was unique because it was on a Friday and it lasted for a long time. But a lot of times it would be at art galleries and people were like, what can I do with this space? [King Shyste] 18:51:59 To get people in here. The lounges will be the same way while we on a Tuesday. Just words did it on a Thursday because we was like, we're not going to try to compete with the entertainment dollar on a Friday and a Saturday. [King Shyste] 18:52:10 So we'll be on a Thursday. So a lot of times these black venues, and it's not just Philly because I've traveled Trenton, Wilmington, Camden, it was the same thing. And I would frequent those spots. If I was like, they were black only me and that owner. [King Shyste] 18:52:25 You know, did some business and I like this spot, I would just pop up. You didn't always have to pay me feature rate to come in. [King Shyste] 18:52:33 I would just come in because the crowd was so loud. [King Shyste] 18:52:35 I can still come in there and push my CDs, you know, date myself. Back then it was CDs. I come in there. [King Shyste] 18:52:42 Go to Wilmington and do two poems and sell 12 cities in 10 hours and walk out with $120. And I love what I'm doing. Like people say, well, you love what you're doing. [King Shyste] 18:52:50 It ain't his job. So the thing I think initially, even when the arts garage, if you remember that spot. [King Shyste] 18:52:58 A lot of times they just needed something to fill the space. So you had your party nights. [King Shyste] 18:53:03 Maybe somebody rented out for their own party maybe an artist come through say they want to do a show there. We had people come in rent out Dallas for shoes. [King Shyste] 18:53:14 You know what I mean? So, but just on a regular basis How do you feel your spot on a Tuesday night? [King Shyste] 18:53:22 On a Wednesday night, on a Thursday night. And initially. [King Shyste] 18:53:29 The bad part about it or the bad part about it downside was they felt like they didn't have to pay the poets. [King Shyste] 18:53:35 Like I would hear people say that. You know, if you go do a partner that you got to pay that DJ. [King Shyste] 18:53:40 And if you got a party now, you know you got to get security in there. [King Shyste] 18:53:44 Any of you out of security, you got to have… You got to pay them bartenders. [King Shyste] 18:53:48 It was almost like a cheap way For a lot of owners to get people in there, they serving food and liquor charged at the door split with the host of the venue split you know work out some door rate [Antoine Stroman] 18:53:51 Okay. [King Shyste] 18:54:02 It was just easier for them to get something going on nights that they didn't have nothing going on. And a lot of times if it did make money, they would stop it. [King Shyste] 18:54:12 I see that happening. Like I said, just words had to grow organically. If they didn't make money That's why a lot of why we lasted so long because uh owner, Stacey Dallin own the spot and other people say that. But we had to painstakingly grow it for a year [King Shyste] 18:54:31 That it became self-sufficient. Most people ain't gonna give you that year. [King Shyste] 18:54:35 They like, this ain't making no money. And they'll shut it down but that wouldn't. [King Shyste] 18:54:39 Initially, that's what it was. Trying to get… people in their spots and they nights that nothing was jumping. [Antoine Stroman] 18:54:50 And that's interesting it means it grew literally like almost out of necessity Like, it's like… [King Shyste] 18:54:56 It's not a necessity. Bookstores, I can't forget the bookstores. You want to get people in your bookstore. How you get people in your space? Because, you know, you get 20 people sitting in a bookstore. [King Shyste] 18:55:06 They like spoken word. What are they going to do? They're going to browse and they're going to buy books. [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:12 Smart move. Oh, you good. This is good. I'm just taking, I'm just trying to get these notes in. [King Shyste] 18:55:12 But go ahead. I'm sorry. [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:18 Okay. So tell me a little bit more about King's heist, right? [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:23 I think the first time the first time I heard you, I actually was at a um i was i was reading on the same the same one And my cousin had invited me. I'm not sure if it was an open mic, but I know you were a feature. [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:35 And I heard your name. And I was like, okay, I'm going to finally hear this ball. [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:41 And like, I was listening and I'm like, okay, I kind of, I hear a spoken word artist, but I also hear a rapper a little bit. And I also hear, like, I was like, I was like, okay, I see why he has this name. [Antoine Stroman] 18:55:54 So tell us about King Shite. Tell us about Ms. Betty's son. [King Shyste] 18:56:00 So you hit it. On the point it's… Coming in. [King Shyste] 18:56:09 I watched Def Poji before I even did spoken word, but I always wrote. So put it into what you say. I've been writing since grade school. [King Shyste] 18:56:18 Writing poetry, writing raps. Going back to Stacey Dollens, he was the DJ. I was the MC back in the seventh, eighth, ninth grade. [King Shyste] 18:56:26 So I have that background. I grew up in church. So I would hear… pastors speak, great orators. [King Shyste] 18:56:35 So you could bond the spoken word using all the party devices, the metaphors The double unchallenger, the similes, the imageries, the extended metaphors, using all the party devices to make sure you're doing the art form The rap part and the MC part is the delivery because it's spoken word. So you want to recite it. It's you writing and reciting. [King Shyste] 18:57:01 That's what people don't forget. And then it's the far where I would sit Even just Sunday morning preachers. [King Shyste] 18:57:11 And to watch them like if I'm sitting in church, I'm watching how they controlling that crowd. [King Shyste] 18:57:15 So that's something else you just pick up from our culture. So you already got poetry in our culture, going back to the black arts movement and beyond You got hip hop in our culture. You got the black church in our culture. I'm taking all of these things. [King Shyste] 18:57:29 I'm taking the corner conversation and barbershop conversation where somebody want to be heard You got to project, you know, with a certain command in that room like it's my time to speak. So it was all that. And it's even jazz. [King Shyste] 18:57:45 Because what I always tell people And it kind of hurts me when I'm recording pieces So if I do record a piece and I do it and then they say, now do it again the same way. [King Shyste] 18:57:56 I was like, I can't do it the same way. It's because i like most when I would hear other poets they would do it the same way every time on stage. [King Shyste] 18:58:05 Like if I heard him do that piece four times They did it the same way four times. I don't. [King Shyste] 18:58:11 And people don't notice that, but it's every time I'm in the moment, it's like jazz. [Antoine Stroman] 18:58:11 Yeah. [King Shyste] 18:58:16 It's the improvisation of jazz. Whatever I'm feeling at the moment is how it's going to go. So I would go up on the next time I might go low on it. [King Shyste] 18:58:27 Next time I might speed it up. The next time I might pause for inflection. [King Shyste] 18:58:32 So I, you know, so it's all those different things. So like I said, if I'm doing niggas and guys like white t-shirts on the avenue, I might do it like an MC white t-shirt, or I might go. [King Shyste] 18:58:43 White t-shirts and Tim's on the avenue like real pronounced. [King Shyste] 18:58:47 Or if I'm in a bookstore is really, I take everything out of it. It's white t-shirts and Tim's on Avenue. [King Shyste] 18:58:54 Jigaboo's doing what niggas do. We regulate it. So it's in the moment, I was… However it feels how I deliver it. [King Shyste] 18:59:03 So I'm looking like I've been in a room full of MCs. You're going to get that part. [King Shyste] 18:59:06 Well, everybody here rapping and I'm the only poet on the list. I done open up for rappers. You gonna get that. If I'm in the church, you're going to get that. [King Shyste] 18:59:14 If I'm in a school, I'm going to use everything I need to use. [King Shyste] 18:59:18 Church nc spoken word Street corner voice. It's whatever it is. [King Shyste] 18:59:25 It's hunting the crab after years of doing it. Like I might do a piece eight times before I figure out Like, I'm really comfortable with it to really play with it whatever way I need to play with it. [King Shyste] 18:59:37 So, you know, so I started Like I said, I know Stacy, we grew up together with the school together. So when he was doing Just Words and I'm seeing everything And he knew the conversations we had. We would debate about [King Shyste] 18:59:51 Everything. If I could give you a short analysis analogy he was analogy He was the Clayton Powell type dude. [King Shyste] 18:59:59 And I was the Minister Farrah contact dude. So put us in the car and let us debate on whatever subject of the day is. [King Shyste] 19:00:06 That's where we will get. We don't always agree on everything. A lot of things we would agree on. [King Shyste] 19:00:11 But he would always say, Shice, you need to do something with that. [King Shyste] 19:00:13 And I didn't know what he meant, but he kept saying, you need to do something with that. [King Shyste] 19:00:17 And then when the art thing came along, he kept saying, you need to get on stage to do something. [Antoine Stroman] 19:00:18 Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:00:23 I know I slowed down a lot of things I was doing. [King Shyste] 19:00:27 All the books I was reading, once I started reading, my pins start going. [King Shyste] 19:00:31 Stepped on stage in 2004, January 2004 And I ain't been off since. [Antoine Stroman] 19:00:38 Whoa. Okay. Some good stuff. It's great stuff, actually. So a couple more questions. [Antoine Stroman] 19:00:45 So tell me a little bit about, and I always, one of the things I'm really big on is when I teach history is I try to get my kids to understand that nothing just falls out of the sky when it happens. [King Shyste] 19:00:55 Absolutely. [Antoine Stroman] 19:00:56 Comes with art. There are some socioeconomic thing going on that has led to it. Prime example, like I share cornbread with my kids and I'm like, this guy started a whole revolution because he was a foster child and one of the worst economic times in Philly's history. [Antoine Stroman] 19:01:15 And he started something that will become something huge, right? So what are some of the socioeconomic things, the things that were going on around you growing up in Philly that kind of informed and influenced you to become a writer and ultimately to become a spoken word artist [King Shyste] 19:01:32 That's a great question. And… It's, it's… It's a long trajectory, right? So you start off naturally some of us are just natural creatives. [King Shyste] 19:01:48 So I can't even remember when I first, I always tell people, I can't remember if I would rap verse or a poem first. [King Shyste] 19:01:55 So you're already writing But I'm growing up in a city like Philadelphia where the culture is everywhere. [King Shyste] 19:02:01 So now you got to figure, I'm growing up in North Philadelphia 17th of the diamond. [King Shyste] 19:02:08 Fontaine, Norris Street, 16th Street. I went to Dukri at 15th and Donna. So you got to look at the impoverished neighborhood I'm going up in. You're talking about cornbread. It's graffiti everywhere. [King Shyste] 19:02:18 I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I remember coming back from the service And I had my ex-wife at the time And because it was so normal to me, I didn't pick it up. She said, damn, do y'all write on everything? So I just grew up in that neighborhood. [King Shyste] 19:02:32 And then it was kind of volatile neighborhood. You go out, you better fight dog eat, dog eat world. [King Shyste] 19:02:39 And then you would pre-crap. So I would go, but I had cousins that lived in Mount Airy West, go ahead. So when I visited them, I was like, that kind of woke me up. Now you're talking about the socioeconomic. I was like, who the hell get to pick? [King Shyste] 19:02:53 Who lives here and who lives there. So already my mind is like working on like who decided that? So you grow older you realize that a lot of, you know, my family who's from the Germantown area where they put blacks at [King Shyste] 19:03:10 The working blacks move to Mount Airy. And Mount Airy and West Oak Lane. [King Shyste] 19:03:16 If you're struggling a little bit and before, you know. Segregation all the way happened, you're packing a lot of poor blacks in no philly My folks are from germantown. [King Shyste] 19:03:30 But at three years of age, my place, my mother's place burnt down in germantown She had to go into uh the uh housing you know housing low income housing and that's how we wound up in north philly So now you're growing up in this thing and i'm worried i'm getting [King Shyste] 19:03:47 Trying to understand the social economics how do people live this way and other people live this way? You look at white people on TV. [King Shyste] 19:03:56 So you're trying to understand now you're doing a deep dive into the history books. [King Shyste] 19:04:01 You're seeing slavery and all those kind of things, but you're not seeing there's a lot missing in these books. So you got to keep doing this deep down. So as I'm doing this deep dive, you're hearing songs like The Message, the rap song like The Message. [King Shyste] 19:04:13 You're starting to hear the rap music coming out Now I'm getting the books and now I'm starting to understand the black panthers who were talking about not only a physical revolution, they were talking about socialism. [King Shyste] 19:04:26 Like capitalism breeds has and have nots So now I'm starting to understand the socioeconomics of North Philly. [King Shyste] 19:04:34 It's a hass and have-nots. So if it's going to be a hass and have nots in capitalism. [King Shyste] 19:04:38 Who's going to be in the bottom of the totem pole most likely the minorities and that were black folks So now you understand how no Philly in these ghettos coming And how you're trapped in here. [King Shyste] 19:04:51 System systemically that this was by design project builders and low income housing, stuffing people, taking up resources It's by design. Then you get with that happening you're starting to see people do what if they don't, some people will take the education route. [King Shyste] 19:05:10 What would those who get educated or work hard enough to get out Or get that chance to work hard, they're leaving. [King Shyste] 19:05:16 And taking the resources with them. So ain't no tax money that is going to be in those neighborhoods. There's no resource in the neighborhood. So now you're going to see more and more poor people that are just stuck. [Antoine Stroman] 19:05:23 True. [King Shyste] 19:05:28 And those people will get stuck when they start doing turn the crown because you got the crack era. So you've seen all these social poverty and violence and people just angry. [King Shyste] 19:05:41 And lack hope. So by the time you start reading, I'm reading all these different books, Malcolm X, Naeem Akb of Farrakhan speeches James Baldwin, Ralph Ellison, you're starting to understand things. And now you're starting to understand things that mind spirit controls the physical condition. [King Shyste] 19:06:02 The physical condition is mind and spirit It's connected to your economic condition. You have to make more money to get out or be able to provide. So all these things start to create. And I think that's why it's so much genius. I think what you're asking [King Shyste] 19:06:18 Why am I so much genius comes out of that and going back to why I would sit up there and say when I was in those white venues. [King Shyste] 19:06:24 I was like, is this the most… This is the struggle y'all talking about. I started a poem one day that started that I don't even do it no more. I'm sitting in the venue and this man starts to whine and my mind goes through [King Shyste] 19:06:38 South Africa and Palestine that's how and i'm sitting there listening to him. Now I'm going all the way across the world And then I come back to North Philly and it's the poem niggas, the guys, who I was, you know, kind of show you early, who I was demonstrating earlier. [King Shyste] 19:06:54 So all of these things is connected. A lot of times rap, hip hop was born out of what you're saying, graffiti break dancing Jazz, blues, all those things you're hitting a great bar. Some of the best spoken word artists that I heard that i love [King Shyste] 19:07:12 Even if you're talking about Gil Scott to Amir Baraka in the last vote, where did they come from? [Antoine Stroman] 19:07:17 Aubrey. [King Shyste] 19:07:17 Socioeconomics that lack resources and struggle. That makes you connect to a mind and spirit in a creative critical thinking that, you know, you get to hear some genius work Now… As I sit and go out now I'm bored a lot of times what's going on. I could just be honest. [King Shyste] 19:07:42 Because a lot of people are just a lot of people are just I think they living in a social media world where now everything is sex, everything is relationships Everything is emotion, how I'm feeling. [King Shyste] 19:07:55 So they're not even talking about And I'll do those phones too because it's still a human spirit that's connected to everything, but it can't just stay there. [King Shyste] 19:08:04 We have to still talk about our thoughts. We still have to do social commentary. You still have to be a timestamp. [King Shyste] 19:08:10 Our school should be able to walk into 2050, if I could look back in 2050, if I could look back in 2025, it should be a time stamp of what's going on. [King Shyste] 19:08:20 I believe from the artists. If not, we will be talking about Like I could look back in now and say… and look at what the young rappers are doing in Philly, I say, oh, they was out here killing each other [Antoine Stroman] 19:08:22 Yep. [King Shyste] 19:08:33 Just by looking at the drill rap scene in Philly. That it was a lot of shooting and volatile and guns and gangs At that point, I should be able to see that. [King Shyste] 19:08:44 I should be able to look back and see, okay, everybody was pacifying themselves with sex. [King Shyste] 19:08:52 And how did they get through it? Well, a lot of us went to escapism and just got into watching everybody talk about sex on social media and music. [King Shyste] 19:09:02 It should be a timestamp. So going back to just to tie it all up. [Antoine Stroman] 19:09:04 Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:09:06 I just think everything that I came out of made me question things. [King Shyste] 19:09:12 So while I'm questioning things, I went looking for the answers. While I went looking for the answers. [King Shyste] 19:09:18 I started writing, like I was writing essays. Like I would just write essays for me on capitalism on capitalism affirmative action on capital punishment. [King Shyste] 19:09:30 Like I was just sitting there writing essays. So then I would write poems and short stories. So everything that was happening around me made me want to, without realizing it, because I kind of, I guess I did kind of realize it because at one time I wanted to be a journalist. I wanted to write for a newspaper. [Antoine Stroman] 19:09:31 Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:09:47 So I was, you know, I was time stamping like, yo, I'm asking myself questions. [King Shyste] 19:09:51 Why do my neighborhood look like this? Why do the people in my neighborhood think like this? Why do they act like this? [King Shyste] 19:09:56 It's because of the socioeconomics in the neighborhood. So now, like Ralph Ellison said, that's why I quote him in my poems. [King Shyste] 19:10:05 When I say I'm Ralph Ellison. With the pen giving voice to the visible men That's what I'm doing i'm talking So like when, you know, people from my hood heard I was doing poems You know, they trying to clown. [Antoine Stroman] 19:10:18 Okay. [King Shyste] 19:10:19 Bublin Brooks and the leaves and on the mountains. And then I would take myself a couple of times when I was on WRD or WH-A-T-M. [King Shyste] 19:10:30 I would show my people, yo, take me when I'm at the studio. Hit the join. As soon as I started doing the poems. So I would have these takes and when they would come over and let them play. Because they knew who I was. [King Shyste] 19:10:41 They knew I'm authentically I'm like, I'm talking about us. [King Shyste] 19:10:45 I'm just talking about us. So when people hear… We talk about black culture street life is part of the black culture but it is, I don't stop at just street light. So if I'm talking about street light, I'm also going [Antoine Stroman] 19:10:46 Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:10:57 Talk about our icons. I'm going to take books that I've read and turn the idea the ideology of those books that i read [King Shyste] 19:11:08 The ideology in those books that I've read And… Hey, Kabana with my life experience and turn it into a poem. [Antoine Stroman] 19:11:18 I love it. [King Shyste] 19:11:21 So the social economics… Definitely. [King Shyste] 19:11:25 The socioeconomics. Created my experience. [King Shyste] 19:11:29 That I come from. I guess that's the short answer. The socioeconomics where I come from created my experience And those experiences is vast. The books I read. [King Shyste] 19:11:38 The people I listen to, the places I went. And if I'm like, if I'm North Philly, I'm North Philly everywhere. Like I'll… been in the military environment in the military Guantanamo Bay. I'm a North Philly dude in Guantanamo Bay. [King Shyste] 19:11:53 If I'm in Miami, if I'm in Puerto Rico or wherever You know what I mean? I'm still going to be who i am But I'm taking all this information with me. So a lot of times people look at your physical shell and they [King Shyste] 19:12:06 I don't know how many times somebody see me in a venue and said, I thought you was a security guard. [King Shyste] 19:12:11 I know you was going to get up on the stage and do that. [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:15 Man, I love it. So I quoted you here on something that it should be a timestamp. [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:19 I'm going to definitely make sure my students understand that when I deliver this to them. [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:26 Music, poetry should be a timestamp. Sidebar, I'm actually, I actually grew up in North Philly too. I'm from Franklin and Diamond. [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:33 I would prefer just down there from the other side. But yeah, that's cool, man. That's cool. So last question, I guess I'm going to ask um How do you think poetry, this poetry scene we're talking about, what you guys were able to [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:48 Accomplish, build, and sustain with just words, the panoramics, the different venues that you had at this time where the city was bubbling. [Antoine Stroman] 19:12:56 How do you think that plays into Philly's overall identity? [King Shyste] 19:13:05 So… Philly's overall identity is so layered. [King Shyste] 19:13:10 And I think… the potential was never all the way tapped into. [King Shyste] 19:13:16 That they'll make it more impactful. So there is an activist side of Philadelphia's the street side of philadelphia. [King Shyste] 19:13:26 Then we, of course, you know, we got that Asian community. We got so many different communities, how we love our sports team. [King Shyste] 19:13:32 So it's a small part of Philadelphia the live entertainment scene. [King Shyste] 19:13:41 That we never tapped in full potential. Because if they say we got 1.67 people living here, I think it's 2 million. [King Shyste] 19:13:48 I think we're close to 2 million. And we don't tap into it enough. [King Shyste] 19:13:53 That it becomes… [King Shyste] 19:13:57 What it should be. So, I mean, it's been times, you know, when Jess Worth is peaking or even years after just words and still to this day. [King Shyste] 19:14:05 People walk down the street and ask me about just words. [King Shyste] 19:14:07 People ask me that I'm still doing spoken word. But… It's also times I could walk through anywhere in the anonymous and still be anonymous. I was just at the got caught up in a Philly parade. I didn't intentionally go to the Eagles parade, even though I'm a big Eagles fan. [King Shyste] 19:14:29 I'm wind up in there and, you know. See so much of Philadelphia that does not really… know enough about the spoken word scene in Philadelphia. [King Shyste] 19:14:39 They don't know enough about the Kings, the Katie Morris, the Sam Iams. [King Shyste] 19:14:42 And that was what I was pushing. Like, I don't care how many weeks we were packed to the rafters It just words and I would go to this venue and this venue looks packed. [King Shyste] 19:14:51 I was like, Will, we got so much more to do. [King Shyste] 19:14:54 And if we could form like Voltron. And people just didn't get it. I was like, yo, if you If I got a hundred something people here, got 200 over here, you got 50 over there, you got this. No, we're supposed to… [King Shyste] 19:15:05 Get our emails and pull our bill and have like a some kind of just like they have jazz festivals in Northwest. I don't know if they still do it. [Antoine Stroman] 19:15:13 West Oakland. Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:15:14 It should be spoken word festivals. Poultry festivals where you're bringing everybody out. Somebody that never… done it before, the Ursula Rutgers, everybody. [King Shyste] 19:15:28 National poets and all the Philadelphia poets and all the venues we and pull together and keep pushing it and keep pushing it. [King Shyste] 19:15:35 And I think… how much it impact? [King Shyste] 19:15:40 I would say not enough. I wish it impact more. I mean, I still got kids. They will find me on Social media. [King Shyste] 19:15:52 And they don't know. They'll be like, what's up, King Shazice? And they'll try to… quote, the premise of what they think I'm doing But they don't know enough like Somebody say, yo, I've really put in work. I'll be walking with some of my kids [King Shyste] 19:16:11 You know, at the school and somebody has stopped and say, yo, y'all don't even know who y'all with. [King Shyste] 19:16:16 That man a legend and they looking like That's just Mr. Williams. That's all we know. They don't take time enough because, you know, everything… now it's just about… social media and their algorithms is not hitting on poetry. Of course, there's poet that's going viral [King Shyste] 19:16:33 But they're not If somebody's sitting up there and saying, yo, you got a million views, but how does that impact the fact that you're from Baltimore? [King Shyste] 19:16:40 Can you put in, you got a million views on social media anytime you post a poll Or a few times it went viral, whatever. But in your city will you put your name on a flyer and 500 people show up? [King Shyste] 19:16:54 So there's a lot of work to be done. So I mean, I could do venues and I'll do a venue It's the nicest pat and people show me love. [King Shyste] 19:17:04 But I'm still looking like… You know how many people in Philadelphia sitting in bars all across the restaurants. You know what I mean? I'm just like, yo, and they're always like, how do I get these people? How do I get these people? [King Shyste] 19:17:19 Like I used to be on the train and just be looking like none of these people know anything about spoken word in Philadelphia. [King Shyste] 19:17:24 How do I get these people? Then it will get to the point I was pushing so hard I could be sitting on the train and i could be sitting on the train If you sit on that train long enough with me. [King Shyste] 19:17:35 Somebody get off the train and stop, shake my hand and just be smiling and be like, yo, man, keep doing what you're doing. [King Shyste] 19:17:41 Did somebody else would get on the train like, yo, Shaise. [King Shyste] 19:17:43 Yo man you and then somebody else would walk off the train. Now everybody on the train is looking at me like, yo, who's this dude? [King Shyste] 19:17:50 But the thing is. I can't. And as I'm saying, we had to all be working that hard that spoken word artists would have meant more in our city. Like, I think I mean a lot in my city. [King Shyste] 19:18:04 But it's just going to be just you. I'll give you this analogy. Like everybody know that Run DMC was one of the first big groups in hip hop, first one to go gold. [King Shyste] 19:18:14 First one to go platinum. First to go multi-platinum and play coliseums. But when hip hop blew up. [King Shyste] 19:18:20 When it was five tours. Like, run DMC on one tour, rock him leading another tour, Salt and Pepper leading another tour, and they all got five acts on the tour. [King Shyste] 19:18:31 And then the West Coast got involved and the South Coast. That's how it has to blow up. It can't be Just words and shy and his… uh collective being impactful in Philly. [King Shyste] 19:18:45 Everybody from Northwest should have been somebody packing in Germantown venues and a South Philly venue and a West Philly venue and a North Philly venue. [King Shyste] 19:18:54 Like it should have been packed venues in all points in the section of the city. [King Shyste] 19:18:58 And then we're supposed to put it all together. And say, yo, we're going to rent out the core center And that's the thing. Nobody thought to do that. [Antoine Stroman] 19:19:04 Yeah, to do it. [King Shyste] 19:19:08 Like, yo, if everybody's doing this stuff. How much would it take to… get a place with finding people in or a whole almost a thousand people and see if we could put a thousand people in there. [King Shyste] 19:19:21 If all of us can… working, what's the towers on 69th market fill that place up. [Antoine Stroman] 19:19:29 Yes. [King Shyste] 19:19:30 Fill up these small venues. I've seen it done with, you know, 300, 400 people and everybody sit around and we taking pictures and everybody posted it to their page. [King Shyste] 19:19:39 I'm like, well, this shouldn't happen once a year or twice a year. We should be able to do this so often and then so often now we don't need it. We need three other seats. Now we need a final seater. So if… [King Shyste] 19:19:53 To answer the question, I just wish it was more. I think it could be more. [Antoine Stroman] 19:19:59 I'm just jotting this down. All right. Well, that's all for my questions i definitely Definitely appreciate this. I think this was, I'm going to stop the recording. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:10 This was, like I said, this was This is going to be perfect towards I have students who are interested in the arts in general. And for a lot of them, again, the scene is like different. I was having a conversation with one of my kids either and said, this morning or yesterday. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:27 And I was explaining this to him. I'm like, look, man, it was it was not what it is now. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:33 There wasn't a whole gang of social media presence. There wasn't a whole lot of that. So people were coming and they were being present. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:39 It wasn't, you know, it wasn't all that. They were mentally, they were psychologically there. So just being in some of those venues. But I definitely wanted to preserve this history. And as the process goes on, I do want to uncover more. Like I obviously have deadlines. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:55 For stuff that I have to meet so i'm Like, I'm going to try to do it in like sections. [Antoine Stroman] 19:20:59 But it's probably going to be something that I want to eventually turn into my own little passion project. [Antoine Stroman] 19:21:05 You know what I mean? I may just be hitting y'all up like at another point like hey listen I need some more content. We got to talk. But definitely… [King Shyste] 19:21:14 And I think a lot of cats I think we're talking about that was there they should have videos from 2004 all the way up to now. [King Shyste] 19:21:26 To document. It should be videos of nights from the harvest Nice from just words. Knights from panoramic poetry. [King Shyste] 19:21:37 Nice from the clef Club. That used to be a big venue. Black I used to host there. [King Shyste] 19:21:42 The almost 300 people there every third friday it should be some archives there to show, you know. [King Shyste] 19:21:50 They were doing it. [Antoine Stroman] 19:21:52 And again, I think to me it's a big part of Philly's history and identity. I just remember the era coming home from college and like, it was like, all right panoramic is running on Friday. I got to go there. Is there something going on Saturday? All right, let's see what we can find. [Antoine Stroman] 19:22:07 You know, that's idea. [King Shyste] 19:22:08 I was like… Until they stopped going. That was my second home. Like, I would… I would be doing all kinds of things, traveling off the country, doing these big jones uh shows But I was still sometimes If they got 20 towards the end. [King Shyste] 19:22:25 If they got 20 people in there, that was love. But if there was 10 people in there, I'd still go in like… 150 people in there. [King Shyste] 19:22:34 And I remember Third Fridays, the Cleff Club will have… 200 something people in there and some nights I was like, I just want to be at the art gallery panorama with 20 people. [King Shyste] 19:22:47 I just needed that like i you know because i didn't feel like You know, Club Club, I felt like I had to perform. [Antoine Stroman] 19:22:56 Yeah. [King Shyste] 19:22:56 With the panorama, I felt like a poet. That makes sense. [Antoine Stroman] 19:23:01 I appreciate it. And again, I'll reach out if I have any other questions. I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot. [King Shyste] 19:23:06 All right, fam. Thank you. Have a great